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Post by Adam on Sept 25, 2009 11:53:15 GMT -5
I think I might have something that isn't appallingly squishy as an explanation for the cool gravity manipulation effects, so I'm probably going to roll with it. The basic principle is that 'dark matter' is currently observable only through its mass, so if you can come up with another way to move the stuff around, you can have as much mass as you like, wherever you like. This assumes that you can supply enough energy to move the dark matter around, but most people think nothing of waiting around for their wormholes to form. That's quite good actually. So are you assuming that dark matter takes up no space, and you can store it at whatever hyperdensity you like? Can it perhaps be created from ordinary matter (might be easier to explain away, if you just take chunks of osmium or something and make them 'go dark')? And I assume wormholes can then be created by carefully piling increasing amounts of dark matter in a small space? I also have some changes to fleet wing compositions in the pipeline (while a decisive, 600 capital ship per side bloodbath might look cool, I'm afraid I'm going to have to tone down most of the ships.) Do tell. Other question: Is it me, or has Nathan turned up on the forum? I've asked Nathan about this, and he knows nothing about it, so it's James. It was going to be one or the other. I hope he starts posting, so I can play mind tricks on him using my admin powers ;D
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Post by dragonlord on Sept 25, 2009 16:15:55 GMT -5
The only problem with that is that if you're using a small moons worth of dark matter to generate your gravity your ship will also have the inertia of a small moon, not so good if you actually want to go places. This is of course assuming that dark matter keeps the same relationship between gravitational and inertial mass that ordinary matter does (which if it didn't would make it completely outside our current knowledge of physics.
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Post by Adam on Sept 26, 2009 6:22:53 GMT -5
The only problem with that is that if you're using a small moons worth of dark matter to generate your gravity your ship will also have the inertia of a small moon, not so good if you actually want to go places. This is of course assuming that dark matter keeps the same relationship between gravitational and inertial mass that ordinary matter does (which if it didn't would make it completely outside our current knowledge of physics. What if you have a big ring-shaped ship whose only purpose is to act as a wormhole gate, and draws in and stores dark matter... nah, it'd be crushed by the wormhole's gravity. What if ships just collected dark matter once they'd reached a suitable velocity? They wouldn't slow down then... wait, yes they would, you'd have to expend energy to bring the dark matter up to your speed too. Bah. Also, actually, for a black hole to form out of a star, it needs to weigh over Chandrasekhar's Limit (is that the one?) - 1.4 times the mass of our sun, or 10^10^10^34 kilograms. So you'd need to cart a significant proportion of that around with you before it collapsed into a black hole, and with that amount of energy you could probably just fold space around you in the first place and travel like that
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Post by dragonlord on Sept 27, 2009 7:27:41 GMT -5
The Chandrasekhar Limit is the limiting mass on a white dwarf, above which it will collapse to become a neutron star. The limit above which a neutron star will collapse to become a black hole is around 3 solar masses and is somewhat less well defined. Also the mass of the Sun is actually 2*10^30 kg. Collapse of a self-gravitating body is not the only way to produce a black hole though, the reason a black hole forms when a neutron star exceeds a critical mass is because the pressure at the centre caused by the gravity of the star pressing inwards exceeds what the repulsion of the neutrons can balance. So you can make a black hole from a much smaller mass if you compress it strongly enough, there are predicted to be quite a lot of such 'micro-black holes' around that are left over from the big bang and the LHC is also predicted to possibly create some in the course of its operation. Anyway, this astrophysical interlude was brought to you by Dragon Lord
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Post by Adam on Sept 27, 2009 7:31:57 GMT -5
We bow to your mastery of physics. ;D
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Post by Peter on Sept 28, 2009 3:27:32 GMT -5
The basic idea was that since dark matter doesn't interact with normal matter (aside from having an observable mass), you can do all of your space-time manipulation by figuring out where you want to go and figuring out how to get the dark matter to the right place.
Oh, and IIRC, dark matter doesn't occupy space in the same way as normal matter.
How people actually move the stuff around is most likely to be the sorcery. The simplest explanation is to actually upgrade the wormholes to 'stable' wormholes in a network, although I'm hoping to work out a slightly different method.
As for the change from 'fleets' to 'wings' - I decided to concentrate on the small ships, because they are probably going to be the most common combat unit.
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Post by Adam on Sept 28, 2009 8:12:28 GMT -5
The basic idea was that since dark matter doesn't interact with normal matter (aside from having an observable mass), you can do all of your space-time manipulation by figuring out where you want to go and figuring out how to get the dark matter to the right place. Oh, and IIRC, dark matter doesn't occupy space in the same way as normal matter. I see. Go for it. How people actually move the stuff around is most likely to be the sorcery. The simplest explanation is to actually upgrade the wormholes to 'stable' wormholes in a network, although I'm hoping to work out a slightly different method. How about having 'hoover ships' that fly to areas of dark matter, suck it up and store it? Like RTS resource gatherers... Each hoover ship could also maintain a wormhole inside itself, dumping dark matter onto planets/other ships near-instantaneously at any desired rate. As for the change from 'fleets' to 'wings' - I decided to concentrate on the small ships, because they are probably going to be the most common combat unit. Okay, cool. So one or two capital ships per engagement, then? With higher numbers of frigates/destroyers and a fleet of scouts?
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Post by dragonlord on Sept 28, 2009 17:19:07 GMT -5
Not much is known about the properties of dark matter (hence why we still call it dark matter and its existence at all is not absolutely certain), but this is theorised as being a property of it yes, so that the density of dark matter would spike at the centre of the galaxy rather than having a smooth peak.
Given how little is known about dark matter you can within limits assign it whatever properties you want to suit your purposes.
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Post by Peter on Sept 29, 2009 12:49:46 GMT -5
Yeah, it works for two reasons: - It avoids a rather horrible trope.
- It still works in play.
Just to elaborate on my earlier comment: nothing really 'takes up space' - my understanding is that mundane matter is composed of infinitesimally small dots/waves (which come in about four different kinds). Things only ever take up space in the sense that they pose resistance to other things being there.
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Post by dragonlord on Sept 29, 2009 15:28:01 GMT -5
This is true to some extent, atoms take up the space they do largerly because of the electrostatic repulsion from the electrons in the atom. On the other hand, while to a certain extent quantum wavefunctions can be superimposed they do generally occupy a describable region of space (for example you can think of a gaussian curve as occupying a region described by how rapidly it falls off).
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Post by Peter on Sept 30, 2009 9:18:15 GMT -5
I'm planning on having at least a little 'magic' in the setting. It mostly does annoying things like prevent people using time dilation to experience a future beyond their theoretical lifespan (because biological processes work in accordance with an 'objective' time which doesn't experience such phenomena).
It also enables the sort of prescience needed to actually make interstellar travel work.
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Post by Adam on Sept 30, 2009 13:57:00 GMT -5
I'm planning on having at least a little 'magic' in the setting. It mostly does annoying things like prevent people using time dilation to experience a future beyond their theoretical lifespan (because biological processes work in accordance with an 'objective' time which doesn't experience such phenomena). You don't need magic to do that, surely? Just say it. It'll soften your setting somewhat, but all that hardness/softness of sci-fi crap really doesn't matter, ignore it unless you're deliberately going for hard sci-fi, which you clearly aren't.
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Post by Peter on Oct 1, 2009 10:21:11 GMT -5
You don't need magic to do that, surely? Just say it. It'll soften your setting somewhat, but all that hardness/softness of sci-fi crap really doesn't matter, ignore it unless you're deliberately going for hard sci-fi, which you clearly aren't. It's not hard sci-fi, but it isn't Star Trek style 'softer than mush' sci-fi either. Basically, I have no plans to change the laws of physics as they apply to the setting. Just write new ones where we aren't too sure. As Earth/the known world aren't part of the setting, I'll concede that I probably am pushing things a little. I guess you're right though. 'Objective biological time' is still an addition rather than a change. I'm currently trying to decide whether or not the setting will feature 'Dark Chemistry' and 'Dark Light' (i.e. some vague relative of EM radiation that interacts with dark molecules).
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Post by Adam on Oct 1, 2009 12:11:46 GMT -5
Dark Chemistry sounds like a gritty, steampunk RPG... Or a bad romance fanfic set in the D'n'D world. Not that the 'bad' is necessary there.
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Post by Peter on Oct 2, 2009 3:59:46 GMT -5
Dark Chemistry sounds like a gritty, steampunk RPG... Or a bad romance fanfic set in the D'n'D world. Not that the 'bad' is necessary there. Yeah... need a better term. In refutation of the claim that erotic fanfic is necessarily bad, I submit My Immortal for your approval. It offends the fabric of the universe such that even 'good' erotic fanfic is still bad simply by association. Seriously. It's worse than The Eye of Argon (which even Wikipedia appears to make fun of).
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Post by Adam on Oct 2, 2009 12:41:09 GMT -5
There's a geek site (bizarrely called Topless Robot) that likes to poke fun at geek culture and similar things, and they run something called Fan Fiction Friday, featuring horrendous, horrendous fanfics from around the globe...
I reckon My Immortal's probably a parody, judging by the excerpts. Must've taken some real dedication, though...
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Post by Peter on Oct 3, 2009 13:58:34 GMT -5
You're probably right about My Immortal - it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that gets written by accident.
In other news, I managed to crank a halfway-decent frame rate out of UT3.
On-topic, I think I might have just worked out how to justify instantaneous communication in the setting, which will certainly make some things easier.
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Post by Adam on Oct 3, 2009 16:26:49 GMT -5
In other news, I managed to crank a halfway-decent frame rate out of UT3. Awesome awesome you are hereby challenged. I like the new concise username, too ;D On-topic, I think I might have just worked out how to justify instantaneous communication in the setting, which will certainly make some things easier. Ooh excellent! Do tell.
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Post by Peter on Oct 4, 2009 4:17:14 GMT -5
In other news, I managed to crank a halfway-decent frame rate out of UT3. Awesome awesome you are hereby challenged. I like the new concise username, too ;D On-topic, I think I might have just worked out how to justify instantaneous communication in the setting, which will certainly make some things easier. Ooh excellent! Do tell. Shoot a bunch of tachyons at something. Include a timestamp with the signal. Have the computer delay the message until it was actually sent. Profit. Now all I have to do is figure out how you control tachyons. The main problem is that in a society sufficiently advanced to build dark energy reactors, secured wireless communications would be very difficult. The best you could hope for is some kind of illogical algorithm that delays enemy comprehension of your communications until after they are acted upon.
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Post by Adam on Oct 5, 2009 5:12:40 GMT -5
Tachyons move faster than the speed of light? What exactly are these things?
Here's an easier way. Ever heard of quantum entanglement? When two atoms (or objects) are quantum-ically entangled, anything that happens to the one, happens to the other. You can apply, for example, energy to one of them and the other will experience a corresponding energy pulse. This apparently works regardless of distance or location, and it would be a simple matter to cause a quantum-entangled atom/object to vibrate/be energised strongly for 1 and weakly for 0, or some similar signal. You could create one- or two-way transmissions that way and rely on planetary networks for distribution.
Imagine a huge 'pipe' of signals similar to an internet line that worked over interstellar distances and connected two planets, with each planet connecting to the two or three nearest it and the entire system chained up together in multiply-redundant ways. A computer runs a simple Dijkstra's algorithm iteration to work out which is the fastest way across the network, and the latency is only limited by how fast your planetary networks are, not the distances involved. This latency could be minimised by placing each planet's communication arrays right next to one another, so switching between arrays to relay a message takes an almost negligible time, and you have pretty-much-instantaneous communication. Provided the equipment was sufficiently advanced, you probably wouldn't notice a delay in a conversation.
Individual quantum communicators can also be built - private ones for uninterceptible person-to-person communication, instant remote control devices for probes/spacecraft/planetary exploration robots, and so on.
I read somewhere that scientists have also, fairly recently, managed to teleport (part of?) a laser beam across a laboratory. If this was developed and scaled up, you could encode, say, a megabyte of data at a time in a pattern of light and teleport it to another planet, and do this a silly number of times per second once the technology advanced further. That's another possible possible method of instantaneous communication (if it is instantaneous; the teleportation might be light-speed instead, I don't know).
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