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Post by Adam on Oct 7, 2009 8:01:36 GMT -5
It's decided then ;D
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Post by Adam on Dec 27, 2009 16:07:17 GMT -5
Interesting. A basic Carnifex might only cost about 25 points. Carnifex Sp5 Sk3 Ar14 Fo6 Ar2 Sw7 Unit size 1 - Bite attack RnMelee Pr8 - Scything talons RnMelee Pr11 Multiple Attack (2) x2 Monstrous Creature, Seething
Monstrous Creature means it's a vehicle, but with two changes: - No -1 to hit against small units in melee. - Can be wounded by <Pr7 fire, but it's not easy. When a monstrous creature takes wounds from such weapons, divide the amount of wounds done by 3, rounding down. Don't carry remainders over to the next action/activation.
The PCA and appropriate tweaking put this at 24 points. This will of course be adjusted again depending on how the creature's Rampage rule (and related instinctive behaviour) work, and will go up depending on upgrades. I might start it at Pr10 instead of 11, and allow toxin sacs to take it up to 11 instead of 12.
In other news, I've had a brainstorm session and decided what to do with the new units. It goes like this:
---Heroes Hive Tyrant: very powerful, versatile, etc. Broodlord: sneaky, benefits troops, provides infiltration options. ---Troops Gaunts: an endless swarm of cannon fodder chaff. Hormagaunts: an endless swarm of pointy, hungry, fast-moving death. Gargoyles: part fast attack, part suicide unit. Genestealers: lethal hammer unit, profit from the presence of a Broodlord. Warriors: mainstay synapse unit, has good firepower and basic-but-effective buffs. ---Elites Zoanthropes: defensive synapse and anti-tank. Warp Blast is powerful but less relied-on due to the game's shorter ranges. Biovores: Acme Board Control Dept. Pyrovores: need a new name. Provide effective anti-heavy infantry shooting (a Tyranid rarity). Lictors: see posts earlier in the thread. Raveners: likewise. Can use deepstrike, re-rolling scatters that don't bring them up under enemy units (once). Venomthropes: also need a new name. Benefits units near it with poison clouds and whatnot. Allows access to more virulent toxins (upgrades). ---Monstrous Creatures Carnifex: linebreaker/tank killer. Resilient, has lots of high-power attacks, can send units sprawling with rampages. Trygon: disruptive destroyer. Bioelectric attack has EMP-type effects on vehicles. Can do ground shockwaves. Tervigon: may get a new name. I like the idea of a spawning beast so I'll leave this one in as well. Replenishes troop units. Tyrannofex: you suck, get out of my codex.
Also, more biomorph ideas: - Bio-plasma: either make a normal attack at the listed power, or place the 3" template in base contact with the creature and roll to hit everyone under it (except Airborne friendlies), at -2 Pr for models not under the central hole. Gargoyles die when they use the template attack. - Consuming Maw: new biomorph replacing the Mawloc. Available to fexes, Trygons, probably Tervigons and possibly some other creatures as well (Raveners/Hive Tyrants). Roll two dice to hit with bite attacks. If one succeeds, cause a hit as normal. If both succeed, swallow whole one enemy soldier model in the target unit. The swallowed model is destroyed immediately. Yes, this includes Heroes, but you need to hit them with 2 of 2 attacks.
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Post by Oliver on Dec 28, 2009 10:52:28 GMT -5
Since Hormagaunts are a separate thing now, can we go back to calling 'Gaunts' Termagants? It's just a cooler name. Also, can Heroes cut their way out from inside things with Consuming Maws? For the sake of badassery?
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Post by Adam on Dec 29, 2009 11:03:16 GMT -5
Since Hormagaunts are a separate thing now, can we go back to calling 'Gaunts' Termagants? It's just a cooler name. Given that the word means a nagging or quarrelsome old woman, I respectfully disagree. Termagants are in fact only one subspecies of Gaunt, just like Gargoyles and Hormagaunts (in fact, the 3rd edition Tyranid codex's creature creator combined all three unit types into one Gaunt creator, with options for leaping and for wings). A Termagant is a Gaunt with a fleshborer and no other biomorphs. I don't think Gaunts (in general) have ever been referred to as Termagants, although the new codex might do so and I suppose it could've happened way back in 2nd ed. Either way, the entry will be called 'Gaunts' so as to allow for the various other subspecies (spinegaunts, deathgaunts, etc). Also, can Heroes cut their way out from inside things with Consuming Maws? For the sake of badassery? Sadly, badassery =/= rules. I'm not paying points to have my Trygon killed from the inside by some Space Marine, or worse, a Tau Ethereal or something. Writing rules for this would also be pretty difficult. If there was even a chance of Heroes being able to destroy large Nids after being consumed, I doubt anyone would buy the upgrade. You'd also have to specifically exclude heroes without cutting weapons, such as Chaplains (a Rosarius is not a blade). But wait! Ethereals have cutting weapons - you'd also have to specifically exclude them! and IG Officers who aren't powerful enough! and so on. Unless, that is, you want a pathetic, combat-shy Ethereal to be able to slice a Carnifex open from the inside while a hardened battle-priest in power armour can't. And then it ends up being something only Force Commanders, Chaos Lords, Autarchs, and Warbosses can do. Possibly the four hero types who are actually capable of taking on a Carnifex anyway. That's aside from the nature of Tyranid digestive systems. Even if the hero in question was still alive when he reached the Tyranid's throat, the creature's digestive system consists of horrendously potent phage cells and chitinous grinding plates. He would be mulch before too long. I do wonder what happens to his active lightsaber/power sword... presumably the creature bites very carefully so as not to take in that particular arm ;D On top of that, most Tyranids aren't really big enough for there to be room to manoeuvre inside their stomachs. Maybe a bio-titan, if that even has a stomach. Sorry to be a killjoy on this one, but I can't really see it working - neither as a game mechanic or something feasible in the fluff. I suppose it could be something only Skill 6+ heroes get. But I daresay a Chaos Lord would be good enough to, you know, not get swallowed in the first place. I've been trying to think of some limitation to Consuming Maw, actually, and that could work - only affecting models with a Skill of 5 or less. That does prevent your uber combat hero from getting completely dominated by your opponent's monstrous creatures. Tyranids lack shooting potency, which at first glance makes Heroes a problem to take out, but I don't doubt that a unit of Genestealers would happily rend them to pieces and I'm pretty sure a Skill 6 Hive Tyrant with five Power 7 attacks per action will turn any hero into a fine dressing for its evening meal of command squad pate. I think Tyranids are going to turn out much like they are now: very intimidating, but destructible, avoidable if you know what you're doing, and with a very high payoff for getting squads into close combat. Hive Tyrants are deadly, but can't easily hide from the enemy's anti-tank guns and their Swiftness is very low by heroic standards (7 or 8). They're also top priority targets and keeping them alive isn't going to be easy, just like normal 40K. Likewise with Carnifexes, who are a bit tougher, but need synapse nursemaiding and are a little slower than most Nids. Gaunts regenerate when killed, but are actually pathetic, a minimal combat threat most suited to tarpitting and providing cover. Middleweight creatures have high damage output and useful synergistic abilities but die far more easily than their size suggests. The route to victory is through target saturation and intimidation - psychologically forcing your opponent's hand - rather than exchanging firepower until someone keels over.
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Post by dragonlord on Dec 29, 2009 15:35:27 GMT -5
Your decisions regarding the new units seem reasonable, I'll reserve final judgement until I've had a chance to read the new codex through properly though.
On Gaunts and Termagants I agree with Adam, a termagant is just one sub-species of gaunt, spinegaunts being another that became rather popular under the last/current codex. Hormagaunts and gargoyles are also subspecies of gaunt too really, whether or not they have been given separate entries in the new codex.
While I agree that heroes being able to cut/shoot their way out from inside the creature that has swallowed them would be cool I can see that it is probably not worth the hassle of rules that would be necessary to facilitate it.
Regarding the nature of Tyranid digestive systems though I believe that in the Tyranid background a lot of the larger creatures such as hive tyrants supposedly either have no digestive system or a very minimal one that can only take in special tyranid nutrient jelly produced by other support creatures. The reasoning behind this being that there is so much packed into a tyranid, particularly the larger ones, that there just isn't room for a fully developed digestive system. Similarly, with the possible exception of gaunts, tyranid creatures cannot reproduce on their own.
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Post by Adam on Dec 30, 2009 10:11:51 GMT -5
Regarding the nature of Tyranid digestive systems though I believe that in the Tyranid background a lot of the larger creatures such as hive tyrants supposedly either have no digestive system or a very minimal one that can only take in special tyranid nutrient jelly produced by other support creatures. The reasoning behind this being that there is so much packed into a tyranid, particularly the larger ones, that there just isn't room for a fully developed digestive system. Yes and no. Xenology's dissected Tyranids have chitin grinding plates in their stomachs (these being a Warrior, Genestealer and Lictor) and all Tyranids have the lethal phage cells in their bloodstreams. These phage cells do break down the preprocessed nutrient liquid you mentioned. I assume creatures with Consuming Maws would have some form of digestive system in order to render down a swallowed creature into nutrients, waste and DNA. What the creature then does with the waste is a mystery; probably spits it back out. I also have another biomorph idea: Phagic Metabolism. Creatures with this adaptation have modified phage cells that, when a signal is triggered, start blindly feeding on everything, mostly the inside of the Tyranid itself. From the consumed materials they produce adrenalin compounds that would in fact be lethal to most creatures. The combination of the hormones and the pain drives the Tyranid into a thrashing frenzy of destruction, and it blindly tears through anything in its path before eventually collapsing. A unit with phagic metabolism can activate it as an ability. From then on, it gains +1 Action, but at the end of each activation, takes damage: - Gaunt broods (including Hormagaunts and Gargoyles) take D10 wounds. - Monstrous creatures roll one D10 for each remaining wound on the model. For each 9 or 10, the creature loses a wound. Additionally, a monstrous creature with Phagic Metabolism active cannot regenerate. - All other units take D5 wounds.
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Post by dragonlord on Jan 1, 2010 15:54:22 GMT -5
The Phagic metabolism thing seems reasonable, it sounds rather like the old Acid Blood mutants from 3rd edition.
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Post by Adam on Jan 3, 2010 16:21:05 GMT -5
OK so I've started working on this list. I've made a few changes to the ideas in the thread:
Symbiosis: Tyranid ranged weapons don't suffer the -1 to hit from Burst Fire or Explosive. A Tyranid may only fire each of its ranged weapons once per activation. Tyranids can use all their melee weapons at once any time they make a melee attack action. Resolve them in any order you desire. The attacks are considered simultaneous. Actual Power depends on the creature for both kinds of weapon, and this will be specified in the profile.
This gives me more granular control over a weapon's rate of fire, meaning it doesn't have to be reliant on the creature's Actions stat. It also encourages synapse creatures to use their powers, and gives some benefit to having two guns (especially on Carnifexes, Warriors and other Actions 2 creatures). By contrast, close combat kill potential for a suitably-equipped Tyranid is very high, with Carnifexes being capable of 10 attacks and Hive Tyrants 15. Of these the Carnifex stands out - the Hive Tyrant has at face value a ton of attacks, but is essentially an infantry squad that exchanges shots and range for Power, while the Carnifex is Power 10-11, which is 'ridiculous' territory. It is, after all, designed to rip up tanks. Its low Skill is a mitigator against non-vehicles, and I'm planning on writing its Rampage rule so that it has to continue movement after attacking infantry - it crashes through formations with blades flying everywhere rather than actually deliberately attacking stuff, so you can't easily use them to surgically obliterate this or that unit, certainly not while they're in synapse.
(Oh, and if anyone's seen Avatar yet? There's a bit where (small text is a possible spoiler) a herd of massive pachyderm/dinosaur type creatures stampedes and crashes through men and machines alike. Carnifexes came to mind, although I think fexes are bigger than the creatures in the movie.)
Monstrous Creature: The unit's unit type is Vehicle, regardless of its category, and it obeys all of the vehicle rules (in addition to those from its category), with the following exceptions: - May not tank shock (Thornback provides an alternative). - May suffer damage from attacks of Power 6 or less, but only takes one wound per two full successful damage rolls per action (in effect, divide the number of wounds caused by <Pr7 damage rolls by 2, and round down). Spare wounds do not carry on to other actions or activations. - Weapons with the Anti-Material rule use their normal Power value against monstrous creatures. - If the model is a Hero, it does not suffer the -1 to hit against units of a size smaller than 5. (Possibly debatable.) - Armour Piercing: Melee attacks from a monstrous creature treat Armour values of non-vehicle targets that are higher than 12 as 12.
I think most of these are obvious in their derivations. While Carnifexes probably think of tank-shock as a light jog through the enemy platoons, I can't see an upright, comparatively skilled Trygon or Hive Tyrant doing it. Certainly not all the time. The <Pr7 damage thing is because having monstrous creatures gunned down by a desperate squad of Imperial Guardsmen is kind of amusing. It's hard to do, though, helping to prevent MCs' untimely demise at the hands of any random infantry unit that comes their way, as occasionally happens in 40K. It also makes things like heavy bolters a minor but not insignificant threat, as they can be in the normal game. (MCs will have low Armour but mid-to-high Fortitude - Carnifexes for example are Ar14 Fo5, with both upgradeable.) The Anti-Material thing recognises that power swords and plasma guns are actually pretty good against monstrous creatures, but also that there isn't any metal armour to heat up or ammunition to cook off, and melta-ing a Trygon only gives it a tan. The Heroism is to stop Hive Tyrants from looking silly when murdering infantry, because that's what they're designed to do in both 40K and IF; the Armour Piercing likewise, mitigating the fact that a basic Tyrant actually has the same Power as a heavy bolter (non-upgraded Tyrants are only S5, as it happens).
Melee weapons: have varying Power values - Basic bite - one boring attack (can be made more interesting via Acid Maw, Tusked, etc) - Scything talons - Multiple Attack (2) - Rending claws - On a critical hit, the attack gains +5 Power. - Lash whips - Enemies may not make Charge, Onslaught or Reactive Strike attacks against this model. On a hit, the target unit suffers -1 Swiftness and may not disengage; lasts until the end of the turn. - Crushing claws - A damage roll from crushing claws always causes critical vehicle damage. Against non-vehicle models, they're naturally going to fear being torn in half. Each successful kill of a non-vehicle model gives the wielder +1 Swiftness against melee attacks until it next activates, to a maximum of +3. - Boneswords - When making normal attacks, is Sear (3). Increases synapse range and psychic power range by 3", 6" if the model has two boneswords. Can also make a smash special attack - no Sear, but if the attack hits, place a 3" template centred on the target model. All models under the template are moved 3" away from the Tyranid (6" with 2 boneswords) and knocked down.
I'm unsure on the boneswords, but the rest of this is solid. Crushing claws have a Power of the creature's typical value +3-5; boneswords get a +1. In effect, crushing claws are rending claws where the crit is always on, plus a neat anti-infantry defensive side effect. Lash whips can actually damage something this time as well as their standard debuff. Rending claws (and Predatory Instincts) make Genestealers a proper threat to Space Marines, as their critical hits are Power 10 and thus cause double wounds.
Ranged weapons: have varying Power and Burst Fire values - Spinefist: Rn6". May re-roll to hit. - Devourer: Rn8". Living Ammunition. - Fleshborer: Rn10". Living Ammunition. - Deathspitter: Rn12". Template (3"), does not suffer the -1 to hit due to cover. - Barbed strangler: Rn14". Template (5"), can roll to damage on suppressive fire at -2 Power, Power is not reduced on targets outside the central hole. - Venom cannon: Rn14". Explosive.
Standard stuff. Pathetic ranges all round, although in practice the bulk of a Tyranid army's firepower comes from the heavy stuff anyway (exception: devourers). I'm debating between 14" and 16" for the big guns. There are more weapons - impaler cannons, various psychic attacks, biovore/pyrovore guns - but those tend to be unit-specific.
The rest of the changes/additions are, so far, just wording. Synapse has been more or less implemented; I don't think I did anything drastic, but there are some subtleties to the way it works. Being in Synapse range grants immunity to Hearts of Rubber and Fatality and makes biomorphs work. Synaptic mage powers cast on a unit expire if it leaves Synapse control (ie. activates outside of Synapse range). A unit is considered to be in Synapse range for the duration of an activation if it activates in range.
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Post by dragonlord on Jan 3, 2010 17:31:12 GMT -5
Do any of the ranged weapons have burst fire? In particular I'm thinking of spinefists, devourers and fleshborers, weapons that are likely to be carried by gaunts, because your reasons for the ignoring the -1 to hit for burst fire make less sense for gaunts, in addition to which it would make gaunts more expensive, which considering that their primary purpose is to be cannon fodder may not be desirable. Other than that the rest seems fine.
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Post by Adam on Jan 4, 2010 5:24:39 GMT -5
Almost all of them have Burst Fire to one degree or another, but Gaunt versions only get one or two shots. As the listing says, Burst Fire varies between creature as well as Power. Deathspitters and barbed stranglers are one shot (apart from monstrous creatures' TL versions of the former) and the others have several. Gaunts' spinefists and fleshborers have no multiple shots, and their devourers fire twice, just like in normal 40K.
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Post by Adam on Jan 5, 2010 15:58:45 GMT -5
Improvements on the ideas above:
- Add to each creature a redundant value called Base Power. BP is used to calculate the Power values of the various weapons the creature has, along with Actions perhaps. - Synapse isn't quite finished: I need to define Synapse creatures/powers as mages/mage powers and add Shadow in the Warp. - I need a definition of a species - a creature of this unit type with a particular set of biomorphs and weapons.* - Remove bite attacks. Each pair of arms equipped with a ranged weapon also contributes a single basic melee attack at the creature's Base Power (representing either being pistol-whipped with an enormous lump of chitin, or being bitten/charged/kicked/stamped on/etc). This helps limit the power of entirely-CC Tyranids and, conversely, allows non-CC Nids to get into melee and not feel entirely nerfed. This will likely make ranged Nids better than melee ones, so perhaps Nids with melee weapons get bonus bite attacks, or more simply, I can just make the melee weapons better.
Thoughts?
*Creatures being of the same species is important for a few rules interaction matters, such as the Hive Tyrant synapse power The Swarm Rises, which lets you shift models between units of the same species (eg. you have two units of Hormagaunts, the frontmost one gets shot up, so the Tyrant casts The Swarm Rises and replenishes the front one to the detriment of the back one). It's not really that significant on Gaunt species, who can get much the same effect with Swarm, although I suppose it's useful for letting Without-Number-reappearing units get back into the fight. It is however quite a bit more significant when used on Genestealers, Raveners and other units that come a bit thinner on the ground - you can spread them out and use TSR to concentrate force at any particular point.
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Post by Oliver on Jan 21, 2010 13:44:47 GMT -5
- Remove bite attacks. Each pair of arms equipped with a ranged weapon also contributes a single basic melee attack at the creature's Base Power (representing either being pistol-whipped with an enormous lump of chitin, or being bitten/charged/kicked/stamped on/etc). This helps limit the power of entirely-CC Tyranids and, conversely, allows non-CC Nids to get into melee and not feel entirely nerfed. This will likely make ranged Nids better than melee ones, so perhaps Nids with melee weapons get bonus bite attacks, or more simply, I can just make the melee weapons better. This sounds a bit confused - you dump Bite in order to reduce the power of CC Nids, then make them more powerful to compensate for ranged ones getting an extra attack. The result is just to increase the CC power of everything in the army. Using Bite instead makes the CC attack of ranged creatures more customisable, whilst still keeping things sane. And Acid Maw etc wouldn't be nearly as elegant to implement without it. Bear in mind also that ranged creatures vulnerable to feeling nerfed could just be given a Bite attack a point or two more powerful than their base power, and that Tyranid ranged weapons restrict the... where the creature's hands would be quite significantly because they can't let go of them.
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Post by Adam on Jan 22, 2010 8:48:01 GMT -5
- Remove bite attacks. Each pair of arms equipped with a ranged weapon also contributes a single basic melee attack at the creature's Base Power (representing either being pistol-whipped with an enormous lump of chitin, or being bitten/charged/kicked/stamped on/etc). This helps limit the power of entirely-CC Tyranids and, conversely, allows non-CC Nids to get into melee and not feel entirely nerfed. This will likely make ranged Nids better than melee ones, so perhaps Nids with melee weapons get bonus bite attacks, or more simply, I can just make the melee weapons better. This sounds a bit confused - you dump Bite in order to reduce the power of CC Nids, then make them more powerful to compensate for ranged ones getting an extra attack. The result is just to increase the CC power of everything in the army. Using Bite instead makes the CC attack of ranged creatures more customisable, whilst still keeping things sane. And Acid Maw etc wouldn't be nearly as elegant to implement without it. Bear in mind also that ranged creatures vulnerable to feeling nerfed could just be given a Bite attack a point or two more powerful than their base power, and that Tyranid ranged weapons restrict the... where the creature's hands would be quite significantly because they can't let go of them. You're right, it is a bit messy, isn't it? I tend to write these things stream of consciousness style. The problem with buffing the bite attack for normal ranged creatures is that you then have to say it only applies on models with two guns or whatever, which makes models with one gun and one melee weapon worse by comparison, and moreover, begs the question of why. I think I'll end up going for the latter idea - a basic attack provided by each arm. Perhaps with less Power. If I keep in bite attacks as well it should work out with regards to biomorphs like Acid Maw and Tusked (although it is just those two). Oh, and also, I can has Hive Tyrant powers. As well as The Swarm Rises I've come up with five more - well, four, and Total Control which is a bonus to Command actions. Looking at it now, TC is very much like Catalyst, so I might actually rename it such and give it to Zoanthropes as an actual power as well as a free bonus to Tyrants. Cortex Leech - 12" range. Target one enemy unit and roll a D10 per member, then subtract the unit's majority Skill. A result of 0 or less does nothing, 1-2 (Fear) knocks down one model, 3-4 (Fury) causes one model to attack its own unit, and 5+ (Despair) causes one model to commit suicide and be immediately destroyed. The target unit's controlling player chooses which models are affected; the Hive Tyrant's controlling player resolves any Fury attacks. Wave of Teeth - For the rest of the turn, enemy units may only attack the closest target or the Tyranid unit that most recently activated, unless the Tyrant that used the power is destroyed. Hyperevolution - Place a 5" template anywhere on the board so that it touches no models and is at least 6" from any other templates placed by this action. A spore chimney or capillary tower explodes from the ground within this area. The template's area (if you don't have a terrain piece) blocks LOS and is impassable terrain to all models, including Airborne ones. No more than 3 such templates (from one side) may be in play at any time. A player may remove any number of Hyperevolution templates placed by him/her each time a friendly Hive Tyrant makes a Hyperevolution action. Violent Growth - Target a single terrain piece within 12". Every enemy unit with a size greater than 1 inside suffers D10 automatic hits with a Power of 5; lone models suffer D5 Pr5 hits. Units which take casualties are entangled and may not make movement actions during their next activation. Total Control - When a Hive Tyrant Commands a unit, this unit is also affected by Total Control until the end of the turn. While affected, the unit gains +1 Speed. Record wounds and casualties taken by the unit, but models whose Fortitude is zero or less are not destroyed until Total Control expires. Non-destroyed models whose Fortitude is zero or less cannot be allocated further damage, but are otherwise considered to be on one wound until Total Control expires and they are destroyed. If such a model regains Fortitude points, extra wounds are added onto a value of zero regardless of 'counting as one' or whether it previously suffered enough wounds to take their Fortitude below zero.
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Post by Oliver on Jan 22, 2010 9:30:04 GMT -5
I like Hyperevolution and Violent Growth - very evocative! Fits very well with the idea for the hive tyrant directing the whole environment into the battle.
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Post by Adam on Jan 22, 2010 11:21:52 GMT -5
Thanks ;D They're also meant to be board control spells - Violent Growth intimidates enemies into staying out of cover and Hyperevolution lets you close off escape routes and divide or hem in the prey.
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Post by Adam on Apr 6, 2010 14:17:05 GMT -5
I have now actually started writing this list. Doing so has pointed out to me that all I seem to be doing with regards to Power values is just adding 1 to the corresponding strength of the weapon in 40K in most cases... I have the heroes so far - the Hive Tyrant and Broodlord, complete with many weapon options, biomorphs and synapse powers. (Who wants a regenerating Tyrant with five wounds?) You've already seen the Tyrant's powers, and so far he hasn't gotten anything new. Writing the rules out did, however, highlight for me that I'd inadvertently created an absolutely brilliant killer combo for thematically intimidating your foe. If you have two Hive Tyrants, you can use one at the beginning of the turn to Command the Gaunt brood you have in front of your army, and keep another one at the back. Then cast Wave of Teeth so that the Gaunts suck up firepower. The Gaunts will probably be annihilated, but won't actually die until the end of the turn due to Total Control. Before that happens, you cast The Swarm Rises, wipe out the brood in the back and replenish your screen. How Tyranid is that? Huge streams of Gaunts flooding onward endlessly to soak up the enemy's ammunition. Even better, you can do it again the following turn using the casualties you recycled using Without Number. It's beatable using tactics, of course; Wave of Teeth won't prevent damage to your army, simply nerf your opponent's ability to focus-fire until you're close enough to him for him to manoeuvre and pick targets. So while the Hive Tyrant focuses on manipulating your opponent, the Broodlord's powers are set up to help press the attack. He has five so far. Fast and Deadly gives a unit All Terrain and Onslaught, perfect for Genestealer boosting. Ensnare immobilises enemies within 6" of him, which has plenty of situational uses but is mostly for pinning baddies down so that Carnifexes can get to them. Nasty Surprise lets you destroy a unit and replace it with any other unit, turning a couple of stragglers or a conveniently placed Gaunt unit into a full brood of Genestealers or (again) a Carnifex. Surge of Hunger and Pheromonal Call are opposites. Surge sends everyone in the Broodlord's synapse range 2" towards the nearest enemy, whereas Call pulls everyone outside the Broodlord's synapse range 2" towards him. Those two are just there to get the army moving and into melee quickly. On top of that, he comes with an Infiltration ability that prevents him from being attacked on the first turn, unless he becomes engaged - and he grants this to all the Genestealers in the army too. The Broodlord is a pretty powerful model, as it happens. Buy him a bunch of Genestealers with Scuttlers (= Commando) and keep him in retinues all game and he'll pay off well. Is it overpowered? I don't think so. IF's alternate-activation system and the ability to shoot in melee mean that charging Genestealers before they charge you can yield results. They have crap armour and aren't hard to kill at all. You can't deny that a bunch of Genestealers deploying in your face are the perfect board control, though... (especially if, in larger games, you use a Hive Tyrant to Command the Broodlord and his retinue and make them invincible). I have also now actually gotten around to reading my 5th edition Codex. I'll spare you a rant on how crap it is and point out thoughts on a couple of the new units vis-á-vis writing rules for them. I actually quite like the idea, if not the name, of the Parasite of Mortrex. A flying thing that moves around the battlefield turning people into Rippers. Coupled with the nature of Rippers in IF anyway, it's suitable. I may put it in, perhaps combining it with the Harpy to get some winged creature suitable for harassing the enemy. The Doom of Malantai, likewise - a lethal psychic souleater that turns the enemy into warp blasts. So I think I will include both, but in different forms, and presumably with rebalanced abilities. The Doom could be an upgrade for one Zoanthrope in a unit, or even the entire unit itself. Making it a separate unit (a new species of 'thrope creature) probably makes more sense, though, as I can do more with it then. Venomthropes, now that I think of it, could actually be amalgamated into one of the other units. Warriors, for example. I could even just make it into a new biomorph or two - in fact, I think I probably will do that.
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Post by Adam on Apr 8, 2010 11:18:30 GMT -5
Progress so far:
Four middleweight units. Warriors, Lictors, Zoanthropes and Biovores. Warriors are pretty simple, although effective, much like they are now (and especially in the 4th edition codex). They have a lot of biomorph options. One thing I'm doing with this army is ensuring every unit has access to as many biomorphs as make sense for it, including units never before upgradeable, like most of the middleweights. Warriors, then, have a lot. The army's basic profiles tend to be a bit weak so far, but fully-upgraded 'Nids are both deadly and capable of withstanding quite a lot of damage. Warriors can be Armour 13, Fortitude 3, and Swiftness 9, with regeneration to boot. Chances are this will almost double their points cost, but whatever. They have synapse powers that grant stat-buffing biomorphs - a choice of five in all, including toxin sacs - and another that gives All Terrain. They also have an option for an Alpha Warrior, who has an extra wound, grants the unit an extra +1 Skill, and most importantly, lets them use the Command action.
I'm beginning to see why Lictors have sucked through at least three successive codex generations: it's pretty much impossible to make them reliably able to survive their first turn without making them nigh unkillable. It's one of the most mobile infantry models in the game. It has a Speed of 6 (upgradeable to 7), and All Terrain. It can move through soldier models, move out of close combat, and run after performing other actions. It has Ac3. Even without an implant attack, it's a solid assassin, able to put six Power 7 attacks on a target and then run away. All of this means that it can easily reach a target, and if it manages to do so, said target is probably going to die; however, of course, the victim can quite happily kill the Lictor in one turn before the creature can do any tearing-off of heads. Lictors also have some useful support abilities - a better version of Trail Blazer and a range boost - but ahh, they're so fragile!
...I suppose, mind, there's always Catalyst...
Zoanthropes. My favourite floating brains. These guys have more physical options than they did before, but I've gone for the same approach I used for the Hive Tyrant when it comes to their synapse powers, and just gave them everything for free, including Synapse Creature. They can buy lash whips, in case anyone's foolish enough to acquire a Venomthrope (or wants to make one; I feel tempted), and a few biomorphs, including the ever-useful Bonded Exoskeleton (+1 Fortitude). Their warp field gives them Armour 15 and Invulnerable (5), a potent defensive combination. Zoanthropes are the defensive synapse unit, complementing the offensive abilities of the Broodlord and the board control of the Hive Tyrant. First and foremost, of course, is ye olde walking lascannon trick, the Warp Blast. The Zoan can only use it once per turn, but it's very powerful; its unfocused form is more or less a plasma cannon (a Power 9 template), and the focused form is Power 13, with Fatality against vehicles. Ouch. Its other powers are defensive in nature, but perfectly suited to offensive applications (because let's face it, a Tyranid swarm not rushing headlong towards the enemy is probably going to die without doing any damage). Catalyst has the same effect as Total Control, except it grants Reactive Strike instead of +1 Speed, and it's a psychic power rather than a Command side effect. Paroxysm debuffs a target's Skill and Swiftness. Rein In allows any unit in the Zoan's Synapse range to disengage (sounds a bit too good, but remember, these are Nids - they're waaaay better in melee than at range, and Rein In is thus fairly situational). Finally, Mind Shield grants additional Armour to a target friendly unit.
I decided to branch Biovores out a bit and expand their arsenal to include some board control abilities, as I did with Whirlwinds. They can lay down 5" templates of biased terrain (slows down the enemy, provides cover to friendlies) and virus-laden clouds that wound anything that ends a move inside on a 9+. Of course, they can also lob spore mines at people. The virus spores and spore mines hang around until an encroaching enemy detonates them, which is board control in itself. Virus spores don't do a lot of damage, but can be useful for provoking your opponent into moving a static unit or being unduly nervous when taking an objective.
I did what I said I'd do with the Venomthrope. All I had to do, in the end, was expand the Spore Cysts biomorph slightly so it now also provides cover to the model using it and friendlies within 2". Voilá, one extra codex entry accounted for. I'm going to ignore the Pyrovore; not sure about the Hive Guard yet. I still have another three middleweights to do on top of those, too - Raveners, the Doomthrope (sounds like another of Cruddace's horrifically-named creations) and Tyrant Guard. Wait, four. There's the flying parasite thing as well. Ye gods. Eight or nine middleweight units! I never realised the codex had so many, even before Cruddace added a bunch more. I mean, I'm only including two or three of his new ones. I suppose most of them aren't that good or useful - Zoanthropes and Warriors are the only ones that show up in my lists with any degree of regularity, although I came to love Raveners recently upon realising their use as additional deathspitters.
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Post by Adam on Apr 9, 2010 12:30:31 GMT -5
Without Number (X): Certain units have this rule. At the beginning of each turn, before rolling for initiative, destroyed models with Without Number can be recycled and brought back onto the table. Each Synapse unit in the army allows the (re)creation of a single unit, with a size of X - no more, no less. Models in each unit must be drawn from models destroyed during the game, and must all be of the same species. Each recycled unit is deployed within 6" of the controlling player's table edge(s), or of the centre of the controlling player's deployment zone if there is no associated table edge, before the turn begins. Multiple units may be deployed within 2" of one another in order to form larger units using Swarm.
Gaunts Sp5 Sk3 Ar10 Fo1 Ac1 Sw9 US8 Strength 3 Weapons: Bite attack and one of the following: spinefists, fleshborer, devourer (Burst Fire (2)). Biomorphs available: adrenal glands, enhanced senses, extended carapace, flesh hooks, scuttlers, toxic miasma, toxin sacs. Special rules: Gunbeast, Hearts of Rubber, Swarm, Without Number (8) - Instinctive Behaviour: Panic! A Gaunt brood outside Synapse control takes D5 wounds each time it activates, as individual creatures flee or hide. (These wounds are not caused by an enemy action and so cannot trigger Hearts of Rubber.) The unit moves towards the nearest piece of cover-providing terrain. If the unit is in cover, it does not move. It makes normal attack actions targeting the closest enemy unit in LOS. - Strength in Numbers: Large broods of Gaunts gain bonuses. A unit of at least 16 Gaunts doubles the cover to-hit modifier (to -2) inflicted on attacks targeting units to which it provides cover. A unit of at least 24 Gaunts is immune to the effects of Hearts of Rubber until the end of any action which reduces it to fewer than 24 models.
Hormagaunts Sp7 Sk3 Ar10 Fo1 Ac1 Sw9 US8 Strength 3 Weapons: Scything talons Biomorphs: leaping Biomorphs available: adrenal glands, enhanced senses, extended carapace, flesh hooks, phagic metabolism, toxic miasma, toxin sacs. Special rules: Seething, Hearts of Rubber, Swarm, Without Number (6) - Instinctive Behaviour: Rush. The Hormagaunts, if unengaged or engaged with a vehicle unit, must move directly towards the nearest non-vehicle enemy unit; if no such units are present, the unit does not move. If, after its normal move, the unit is not engaged with the unit it moved towards, it must make a run action directly towards them as well. Once the Hormagaunts are engaged with a non-vehicle unit, they must attack the largest (in terms of unit size) non-vehicle unit they are engaged with. - Strength in Numbers: Large broods of Hormagaunts gain bonuses. A unit of at least 16 Hormagaunts gains Charge. A unit of at least 24 Hormagaunts gains All Terrain. - Animalistic: If a Hormagaunt unit attacks an enemy unit from further than 2" away, and does not destroy the target unit completely, move the unit 2" towards the target after resolving the attacks.
Gargoyles Sp7 Sk3 Ar10 Fo1 Ac1 Sw10 US8 Strength 3 Weapons: One of the following: spinefists, fleshborer, devourer (Burst Fire (2)). Biomorphs: bio-plasma, wings (Speed increase included in profile) Biomorphs available: adrenal glands, enhanced senses, toxin sacs. Special rules: Gunbeast, Hearts of Rubber, Swarm, Without Number (6) - Instinctive Behaviour: The Gargoyles move directly away from the closest enemy unit within their LOS, and must attack that unit if they're still in range after moving. If they have no enemies within LOS, they do not move or attack. - Strength in Numbers: Large broods of Gargoyles gain bonuses. A unit of at least 16 Gargoyles is immune to the effects of Hearts of Rubber until the end of any action which reduces it to fewer than 16 models. A unit of at least 24 Gargoyles is immune to Instinctive Behaviour. - Life is Cheap: When a Gargoyle uses the bio-plasma template attack, it is destroyed after the attack has been resolved. A Gargoyle may also grant the Anti-Material (Strength+5) rule to its bio-plasma attack, but will be destroyed after the attack has been resolved. - Secondary Attackers: Unless the army includes a Hive Tyrant with the Wings biomorph, no more than half of your Troops units may be Gargoyles. - Insertion: Gargoyle broods deploying using this method may use Swarm before they do so, coming in as a single unit. Gargoyles may also use Insertion when being recycled via Without Number.
Genestealers Sp5 Sk5 Ar11 Fo1 Ac2 Sw9 US4 Strength 4 Weapons: Two sets of rending claws. All the better to decapitate you with! Biomorphs available: adrenal glands, enhanced senses, extended carapace, feeder tendrils, flesh hooks, phagic metabolism, scuttlers, toxic miasma, toxin sacs. Special rules: Predatory Instinct, Reactive Strike - Brood Telepathy: Genestealers have no Instinctive Behaviour rule. Friendly Gaunt, Hormagaunt and Gargoyle units within 6" of a Genestealer unit do not suffer from Instinctive Behaviour either. Options: Increase the brood size to 6 or 8.
Sound good? How's the wording on Without Number? I'm trying to think of good ways to phrase the rule.
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Post by dragonlord on Apr 9, 2010 16:56:39 GMT -5
Sounds reasonable for the most part. I'm not sure about Gargoyles immunity to instinctive behaviour in groups of >24 though, nor the genestealer semi-synapse rule. I presume that if Gargoyles use the Anti-material form of their bio-plasma it is no longer a template attack? The wording, and mechanics, of without number seem ok.
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Post by Adam on Apr 10, 2010 13:40:18 GMT -5
Sounds reasonable for the most part. I'm not sure about Gargoyles immunity to instinctive behaviour in groups of >24 though, nor the genestealer semi-synapse rule. These are reliability/distance fixes. Think about it; how many winged synapse creatures do you have? I have 22 synapse creatures, and two of them can fly. Upgrading Warriors with wings just puts big bullseyes on them, and while it is of course possible to mitigate this by positioning them and pressuring your opponent with the rest of the army, unless you make all of your synapse airborne, the flying stuff's going to die first most of the time. It's also very costly in terms of points, money and/or time, even if it does result in some badass looking models. As such, the Gargoyles gain immunity to IB in large numbers simply to enable a halfway competent deep strike attempt. Having 24 Gargoyles drop in only to turn and try to run away, probably dying in the process, isn't a great way to spend points. Three units of anything committed to the same task is a significant investment, even cheap units. The Genestealers' expanded Brood Telepathy is pretty much directly because synapse creatures are slow. Gaunts go in front of the army, and Gargoyles and Hormagaunts move ahead of it. When you're attempting to protect your synapse (as they are absolute necessities in this list), running or flying them forward to nursemaid some crappy Gaunts may not always be the best of ideas. As such, a couple of units of appropriately Commando'd Genestealers can fill the gap of a turn or so that opens up when your Hormagaunts charge in. With the way IF works, this gap won't be as pronounced as it is in 40K; nevertheless, it helps to have something to seal it. It may turn out to be overfixing a problem, or overly affecting opponents' target priority (hey, Genestealers have synapse too?!!) in which case it will be removed. Bear in mind that not suffering Instinctive Behaviour is only one of the effects of Synapse control. An uncontrolled creature suffers from Fatality, suppressive fire and (most significantly) Hearts of Rubber, and doesn't benefit from its biomorphs or the synapse powers of the leader beasts. Hormagaunts are particularly vulnerable here, as they don't get inbuilt immunities to HoR, which doesn't mesh well with their speed. I presume that if Gargoyles use the Anti-material form of their bio-plasma it is no longer a template attack? Good call! I don't think it'd have mattered much in most situations, but it does make a difference. Edited to match the intention. (In my text file, not in the above post.) The wording, and mechanics, of without number seem ok. Glad you like it.
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